The Journaling of Rohde 847
Subtitle
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not effected all at once; and it reflected one or more situations peculiar to Greece.8' Nudity currently comes to mean
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something unique. No longer does it mean vulnerability; it means, on the contrary, the preparation to stand up
and fight even though one knew one was vulnerable. It
has to do with military valor which necessitates risking
one's life, being totally exposed. The women were kept
covered because it meant they were shielded, not exposed to danger. The relationship of this manly nudity to
the nudity of the gods is also vital: the gods could be
Naked because they relied on themselves.
Authors of the Classical period eventually seemed
back at the custom and offered rationalizing explanations for an institution whose significance had altered
from religious and ritual to civic.82 The Greeks did
tifying signals of the athlete. A story features the sloth of the
Individuals of Sybaris,who saw the athletesof Krotondiggingup
the palaestra and wonderedwhy they didn't hire workers
to performsuch menial jobs (Poliakoff[supran. 54] 12-13,
80 Aeschin. In Tim. 138; mentioned in M. Golden,
"Slaveryand
Homosexuality,"Phoenix 38 (1984) 319, who believes slaves
were really banned from entering the palaestra. For a
similar law in Crete, view Arist. Pol. 11.19: Cretans give
slaves the same rights as they have, except that they prohibit
Gymnasticsand war are mentionedtogether additionally as something normallyforeignto girls:supra, text and n. 85.
81 For transformationof earlier institutionsand values, see
Similar transformation,
from religious to civil, took place, e.g., in the theatre, or in
the polis, with the usage of the lot.
not completely understandthe origin or the development
Yet they had to clarify it, as a peculiarity that exemplified clearly and supported in action the difference between themselves
and everyone else, a difference of which they were
acutely conscious. We have seen that they attributedthe
Source of fit nudity to the 15th Olympiad, in the
last decades of the eighth century B.C. The first
But the custom spread slowly, and after, into
everydaylife. Such a gradualdevelopmentcan describe
the statement of Thucydides (1.6)-repeated after by
Plato (Resp. 5.452a-e)-that athletic nudity had become universal in Greece "shortlybefore his time."
http://smyw.org/cgi-bin/atc/out.cgi?id=190&u=https://beachspy.site were referringto the normalizationof
nudity in real life, to its civic worth,not to its
First appearancein religious ritual and artwork.
Thucydides saw the custom of exercising in the
phantly been verified at Athens shortly before his
time, after the Persian Wars. mother daughter nudist of fit nudity into the regular life of the gymnasium
and palaestra was part of a "modern" way of life,
freer, easier, more democratic, based on Thucydides. It was the dress, one might almost say the uniform, of the citizen who worked out in order to maintain
himself in preparation for military service. A Greek soldier must be in shape: he must be slender and muscular,
not portly and comfortable.
break with the barbarians-everyone
except the
Greeks-who declared their status and wealth by
wearing lavish garments that gave an impression
of elegance and authority."83
While Thucydides explains Greek nudity in the
Circumstance of democracy, Plato describes it as an effect of
the legitimate, rational way of thinking of which the
Greeks were so proud.84 In a passage in which he clearly has the Spartan model in head, Plato pictures
the scenario that would arise if women were to have
an equal role with men in society.
If, then, we use the girls for the same things as the
Guys, they must also be educated the same things. Now
music and gymnasticwere givento the men. These two
arts, and what has to do with war, must be assignedto
the women also, and they must be used in the same
ways. Maybe,comparedto what's habitual,many of
the things now being said would appear ridiculousif they
the girls exercising nude with the guys in the palaestras, not only the young ones, but even the older
ones, too, like the old men in the gymnasium who,
when they're wrinkledand not pleasantto the eye, all
The exact same love gymnastic.-By Zeus, he said, that
would seem ridiculousin the presentstate of stuff. Well, since we've began to speak, we mustn't be
afraid of all the jokes-of whatever sort-the wits
might make if such a change took place in gymnastic,
the riding of horses. But since we've begun to talk,
tiated society like that of ancient Greece attention must be
paid to a broad assortment of evidence, from myths and philosophic utopias to anecdotes on the physical look,
movements,or dress associatedwith a particularstatus or
Job...
and fight even though one knew one was vulnerable. It
has to do with military valor which necessitates risking
one's life, being totally exposed. The women were kept
covered because it meant they were shielded, not exposed to danger. The relationship of this manly nudity to
the nudity of the gods is also vital: the gods could be
Naked because they relied on themselves.
Authors of the Classical period eventually seemed
back at the custom and offered rationalizing explanations for an institution whose significance had altered
from religious and ritual to civic.82 The Greeks did
tifying signals of the athlete. A story features the sloth of the
Individuals of Sybaris,who saw the athletesof Krotondiggingup
the palaestra and wonderedwhy they didn't hire workers
to performsuch menial jobs (Poliakoff[supran. 54] 12-13,
80 Aeschin. In Tim. 138; mentioned in M. Golden,
"Slaveryand
Homosexuality,"Phoenix 38 (1984) 319, who believes slaves
were really banned from entering the palaestra. For a
similar law in Crete, view Arist. Pol. 11.19: Cretans give
slaves the same rights as they have, except that they prohibit
Gymnasticsand war are mentionedtogether additionally as something normallyforeignto girls:supra, text and n. 85.
81 For transformationof earlier institutionsand values, see
Similar transformation,
from religious to civil, took place, e.g., in the theatre, or in
the polis, with the usage of the lot.
not completely understandthe origin or the development
Yet they had to clarify it, as a peculiarity that exemplified clearly and supported in action the difference between themselves
and everyone else, a difference of which they were
acutely conscious. We have seen that they attributedthe
Source of fit nudity to the 15th Olympiad, in the
last decades of the eighth century B.C. The first
But the custom spread slowly, and after, into
everydaylife. Such a gradualdevelopmentcan describe
the statement of Thucydides (1.6)-repeated after by
Plato (Resp. 5.452a-e)-that athletic nudity had become universal in Greece "shortlybefore his time."
http://smyw.org/cgi-bin/atc/out.cgi?id=190&u=https://beachspy.site were referringto the normalizationof
nudity in real life, to its civic worth,not to its
First appearancein religious ritual and artwork.
Thucydides saw the custom of exercising in the
phantly been verified at Athens shortly before his
time, after the Persian Wars. mother daughter nudist of fit nudity into the regular life of the gymnasium
and palaestra was part of a "modern" way of life,
freer, easier, more democratic, based on Thucydides. It was the dress, one might almost say the uniform, of the citizen who worked out in order to maintain
himself in preparation for military service. A Greek soldier must be in shape: he must be slender and muscular,
not portly and comfortable.
break with the barbarians-everyone
except the
Greeks-who declared their status and wealth by
wearing lavish garments that gave an impression
of elegance and authority."83
While Thucydides explains Greek nudity in the
Circumstance of democracy, Plato describes it as an effect of
the legitimate, rational way of thinking of which the
Greeks were so proud.84 In a passage in which he clearly has the Spartan model in head, Plato pictures
the scenario that would arise if women were to have
an equal role with men in society.
If, then, we use the girls for the same things as the
Guys, they must also be educated the same things. Now
music and gymnasticwere givento the men. These two
arts, and what has to do with war, must be assignedto
the women also, and they must be used in the same
ways. Maybe,comparedto what's habitual,many of
the things now being said would appear ridiculousif they
the girls exercising nude with the guys in the palaestras, not only the young ones, but even the older
ones, too, like the old men in the gymnasium who,
when they're wrinkledand not pleasantto the eye, all
The exact same love gymnastic.-By Zeus, he said, that
would seem ridiculousin the presentstate of stuff. Well, since we've began to speak, we mustn't be
afraid of all the jokes-of whatever sort-the wits
might make if such a change took place in gymnastic,
the riding of horses. But since we've begun to talk,
tiated society like that of ancient Greece attention must be
paid to a broad assortment of evidence, from myths and philosophic utopias to anecdotes on the physical look,
movements,or dress associatedwith a particularstatus or
Job...
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